Rings may not have seated yet?

[Aint Skeered]

I have a 347 ls1 with Mahle power pak piston and rings. When we put the engine in my Nova it would not run and it took quite a while to figure out that after letting a friend use my coilpacks , he crossed the wire harness under the packs and my motor was not firing the correct cyl.
Now after about 20 track passes and continueing to fight oil leaks with on rear of engine, I pulled the crank case evac I had going to my exh. system and put filters on each valve cover thinking the evac kit was not working.
I now realize that the engine is pushing a good bit of crank case psi out of valve cover.

Is there a way to get the rings to seat that I can try before pulling this engine down to hone and rering it? I am going to do a leak down test but have not done it yet.

[quik406]

Pour ajax down it why it is running:notooth[1 Thats what oldtimers used to preach. I think PredZ still uses that method. No really, pull the motor and fix it! Something is wrong, you will never get it right if you fix it right. Leak test is great, but not the final word. you are only testing the piston at the bottom of its stroke. Good luck!

[Mr. P.]

We would do a leakdown test to get a feel for what cylinders might be down, then add a pinch of comet cleanser to that chamber and circulate the powder with a gentle blast from an air nozzle, turn the motor over with a starter to work the cleanser in. But this was always a last-ditch effort, it would encourage the rings to bite but just postponed the inevitable, after a couple races the block would still need a fresh hone and new rings.

Mr. P.

[Greg Good]

The only thing you can really do is put a high zinc oil like Gibbs BR in it and run it through the rpm range in high gear under load over and over until the rings seat, or you figure out it won't.

[Aint Skeered]

thanks Greg, I may try that just to see. I am off for 5 days after the first of the year, may just rering it. I will see, just tired of blowing oil and possible lost power.

[quik406]

put a high zinc oil :wtf[1]:To break in rings?? WHY??

[racer7088]

Usually if rings aren't broken in the first time you get on it they will never break in. The powerpak rings are Moly rings so they shouldn't have any issues at all and be broken in as soon as you start the engine basically.

Modern rings and pistons are very good and the rings are very round.

How did you hone this engine? Maybe the oil got fuel washed out but I have hardly ever really seen that but it is possible I guess.

[quik406]

I Agee with Erik. I would think fuel wash would be a major concern with the harness crossed. Do you trust the hone job??

For a side discussion does anyone have "real" data on break in with synthetic?don't care about Internet nutswinging. Real data

[racer7088]

Anything needing "break-in" means there is "some" metal to metal content and this something like Greg said like Joe Gibbs BR or BR30 would be good with the heavy zinc and no detergent. Rings to cylinder walls and rings to piston grooves should already be good and need almost no breakin if you have round cylinders. With old school hones and with the wrong finishes already on the bores the rings may have a harder time dealing with that.

In the over 1500 engines we've done we just havent had a smoker really yet thank god but I'd also check that engine on the valve stem seals etc. and the other usual areas like PCV too or the rocker arm bolts too.

[quik406]

Data please. HCtoke? Why break-in with non detergent? Wonder how oe gets away with factory fill synthetic? Huh weird:) Also why does everyone think ls motors need zinc? I understand zinc so don't try and explain why zinc was taken out of oil and put in break-in oil. Why does an ls need it? And how can it help seat rings?

[racer7088]

There is nothing to really break in on a factory hydraulic roller LS1 motor is what I am saying or most of ours as they are plateah honed and have round rings and have all clearances set already. Now if you have some extreme pressure points like higher load springs on a solid roller etc as in pushrods cups etc. then I like the extra zinc stuff especially solid flat tappet deals.

On this reg hydraulic roller stuff LS1 stuff though it probably doesn't matter much at all what you do as we use almost anything on sale but never synthetic as its too expensive when you are going to change it a few times so why throw away expensive oil?

[racer7088]

Data please. HCtoke? Why break-in with non detergent? Wonder how oe gets away with factory fill synthetic? Huh weird:) Also why does everyone think ls motors need zinc? I understand zinc so don't try and explain why zinc was taken out of oil and put in break-in oil. Why does an ls need it? And how can it help seat rings?

OE stuff is very low load smooth ramps and low friction everything and high quality everything as well so there is really almost no break in at all needed as on most new engines in the here and now. Now you start up a higher performance deal with steel rings and much higher rate double springs etc. the JGR stuff is extra insurance.

[Greg Good]

:wtf[1]:To break in rings?? WHY??

The break in process, as I understand it, is straight out of the Lubrication Handbook. I have a copy that was given to me by a retired Texaco lubricants engineer.

The way the book describes it is; you have *peaks* on both parts. These are called asperities. When they make actual metal to metal contact the ZDDP molecule (comprised of zinc and phosphorous) causes a "chemical polishing" of the two surfaces. That's your break in.

I use Erik exclusively for my honing work, as he is a fanatic on it, and I have never had a problem with ring seating when using his hone work. I think the rings break in before the oil in the cylinder burns off.

I simply posted the high zinc oil and engine loading as a last ditch effort.

[Aint Skeered]

I think the screw up in coil pack wiring may have had me wash my cyl.'s down. We cranked and cranked on it trying to figure it out. The whole time I was gritting my teeth just hating that it would not fire up.

the same guy who borrowed my coil packs is the one who figured out the problem. He had his coils relocated so he took mine off the frame mounts and when he put them back on he crossed the wiring. THis sucks

[Aint Skeered]

Im going to pull it out, hone it and rering it. Atleast this time I know it will fire back up, its already had all the testing and tuning done. ITs agrivating but I want it sealed up with no oil leaks and I need to put my other converter back in anyways. Thanks Guy's

[WelderMike27408]

fwiw...when my 416 was built..they said the rings should seat in the first 40 miles or so......my problem has been due to the low tension oil rings....

[racer7088]

Just make sure it isn't something simple first Skeered as you may be fine but just have an issue with the heads or rocker arm hold down bolts etc.

[PREDATOR-Z]

Pour ajax down it why it is running:notooth[1 Thats what oldtimers used to preach. I think PredZ still uses that method. No really, pull the motor and fix it! Something is wrong, you will never get it right if you fix it right. Leak test is great, but not the final word. you are only testing the piston at the bottom of its stroke. Good luck!

Huh?? must be a jk about age? Haha, :)

I usualy just get it to operating temp, then drive it at different rpms from low to 4Krpm in the first 20 minutes with 2 cool downs.
After that, I go again from low to Max rpms. Always had nice seated rings. have to have a base tune in it though and that is the step poeple tend to skip and run too rich at idle for long periods. this tends to glaze the cylinders.

[Aint Skeered]

Just make sure it isn't something simple first Skeered as you may be fine but just have an issue with the heads or rocker arm hold down bolts etc.

what do you mean about the rocker arm hold down bolts? What should I check over before pulling this thing down?

[studderin]

if the intake bolts are open to the runner, they could be pulling oil thu the threads, (ported heads)

[Aint Skeered]

im not getting any oil in the intake runner that i know of. the intake was off not to long ago and all int. valves were clean. Thanks though

[studderin]

OK, the intake was clean too. Whats kind is it again?

[brad]

could hang a vaccum pump off the side of it and help the rings out with the seal couldnt u?

btw... i need to get back to work on my chebby2.... i just ordered and mounted the vfn fiberglass front cap.. know anyone needing some hardwood fiberglass fenders?

[Aint Skeered]

Brad what year is yours again? I have an electric vacuam pump I could try , I dont know if it pulls enough, I had this pulling from exhaust and I thought it pulled pretty damn hard. Maybe not hard enough.

although it was only one side, as the driver side valve cover has a oriphice in it that i did not know about. I could pop that out and pull off the whole 7/16 opening. Might pull enough with both sides pulling. I dont know.

[Aint Skeered]

OK, the intake was clean too. Whats kind is it again?

What intake? its from a truck. 78 mm version

[brad]

Brad what year is yours again? I have an electric vacuam pump I could try , I dont know if it pulls enough, I had this pulling from exhaust and I thought it pulled pretty damn hard. Maybe not hard enough.

although it was only one side, as the driver side valve cover has a oriphice in it that i did not know about. I could pop that out and pull off the whole 7/16 opening. Might pull enough with both sides pulling. I dont know.

mine is a 62ss.. i have a belt driven pump on my 66 chevy II.. and it does very well.... never been a big fan of elec pump or header kits when compared to a belt driven pump..

[Aint Skeered]

Yeah, I may just do it the filter on valve cover way when i rering it. I thought about venting both sides and see if it will work and maybe they will seat, I just hate missing track time over it.