Ed, ya think we are finally getting to Ron?

[SStrokerAce]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9451753&postcount=15

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a692/a692_bm.gif

He's just lucky he doesn't have to argue with me about camshafts I would hate to bitch slap him in front of all his minions.

Bret

[Stang's Bane]

Did you notice where I asked him about his cam lobes........

[Ed Curtis]

Funny...

Maybe he's got a used Comp catalog.

Vengeance Racing "CUSTOM" camshafts....

VRX1- 220*-220*-.581”-.581” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3720 = 269*-220*-143*-.342"-.581"
3720 = 269*-220*-143*-.342"-.581"

VRX2- 224*-228*-.581”-.588” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3722 = 273*-224*-146*-.342"-.581"
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"

VRX3- 226*-228*-.585”-.588” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3723 = 275*-226*-148*-.344"-.585"
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"

VRX4- 228*-230*-.588”-.592” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3724 = 277*-228*-149*-.346"-.588"
3725 = 279*-230*-151*-.348"-.592"

VRX5- 236*-238*-.601”-.605” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3728 = 285*-236*-157*-.354”-.602”
3729 = 287*-238*-159*-.356”-.605”

VRX6- 238*-240*-.605”-.609” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3729 = 287*-238*-159*-.356”-.605”
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”

VRX-7 244*-248*-.612”-.596” - 112*-113*-114* LSA
3732 = 293*-244*-165*-.360"-.612"
3657 = 301*-248*-164*-.350"-.595"

Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"

:moon[1]:

[wkmcd]

Post 9 is the meat..

"Thats right!!! All of the good cam "desginers" are long gone... NOBODY on this board knows how to spec a camshaft to meet your goals... I suggest you hi tail it over to Ed Curtis' web site immediately so he can pick up his Borrowed Comp Catalog and " Design" your optimal camshaft............" :moon[1]:

[SStrokerAce]

I really wonder why he is being so sarcastic? Anyone with a brain in their head already knows that they are all gone!

The funny thing is looking at the list of their cam specs, it just looks like a load of crap to me. I love how the durations are set but the LSA is variable, I guess that means the valve events are variable as well?

Bret

[wkmcd]

I really wonder why he is being so sarcastic? Anyone with a brain in their head already knows that they are all gone!

The funny thing is looking at the list of their cam specs, it just looks like a load of crap to me. I love how the durations are set but the LSA is variable, I guess that means the valve events are variable as well?

Bret

I certainly don't see anything brilliant or even creative there. :dunno[1]: I'd much rather see something creative at least.

[SStrokerAce]

It's not that it has to be creative, just has to be correct. The funny thing is the larger the camshaft the LESS leway you have in moving the valve events around for the correct ones.

For example a small truck cam under 214° on the intake side can make a good TQ curve on a LS motor with a 106 or 112 LSA, now add another 15-20° @ .050" to that cam for a street car and you can't be off on the IVC, IVO or the exhaust events before the thing drops power everywhere.

In the end isin't the TRex V1 really close to the Vindicator? (242/248 110 +2)

[wkmcd]

In the end isin't the TRex V1 really close to the Vindicator? (242/248 110 +2)

That's probably just a coincidence. :icon_roll

[Ed Curtis]

<guest> c-69-246-159-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net :wavey:

[wkmcd]

<guest> c-69-246-159-68.hsd1.ga.comcast.net :wavey:

BUSTED!!!:biggrinbo

[SStrokerAce]

Ok computer geeks....... that mean he showed up to look?

[Goatkart]

Ok computer geeks....... that mean he showed up to look?


that means someone from Georgia showed up to look... or very near georgia, as the server is based in atlanta



damn trouble makers :)

[SStrokerAce]

That's what I figured.....

[LinearX]

Actually, the IP address in question is mine. I've been lurking for a while, but since Ed was so nice as to point it out for everyone, I figured I should register and make myself known! :D

[Ed Curtis]

Actually, the IP address in question is mine. I've been lurking for a while, but since Ed was so nice as to point it out for everyone, I figured I should register and make myself known! :D

Lurkers are permitted but until you register, you can't pick on Bret...

Ed

[SStrokerAce]

That is very true!

[LinearX]

I've seen some of Bret's posts already and, while I don't think I'm the dumbest person on the planet, I've seen the way he lays waste to general stupidity in regards to cams/airflow. I'm pretty sure I fall into the stupid category, so I may keep quiet for a while! :D

I'll go ahead and lay out my combination and put on my flame suit.

2002 Z06
stock bottom end
AFR 225 @ 60cc
240/244 .598/.605 112+4
FAST 92
Kooks 1.875"

Thanks again, Ed, for pointing out that I was lurking! I'll try to post more regularly if I feel I have something constructive to add. :D

[SStrokerAce]

If you lurk around you know how I feel about most heads..... AFR's fall into that category.

As for the cam it's a bit large and doesn't need to be.

Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"

[wkmcd]

If you lurk around you know how I feel about most heads..... AFR's fall into that category.

As for the cam it's a bit large and doesn't need to be.

Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"


BTW LinearX: This is NOT considered blasphemy on HardcoreLS1...:moon[1]:

[LinearX]

If you lurk around you know how I feel about most heads..... AFR's fall into that category.

As for the cam it's a bit large and doesn't need to be.

Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"



Initially, I was hoping that Greg Good would port a set of stock castings for me, but we could never get together at the same time on them. I was then going to let TEA do a set, but these AFRs kind of fell in my lap. I was thinking that with the heads I could grow into more cubes so that was another reason that I got them. If you feel the same about AFRs that you do about most every other head, is it at all worthwhile to have someone give them a once over? Are there any glaring problems that can be fixed by someone like you or Greg?

Ideally I was wanting a set of TFS or ET heads, but I couldn't justify the extra $1200 for, what I believed to be, a minimal difference in peak power. Of course, I could be way off base on the power difference that my engine would make with a set of ETs, but the price was right so it seemed like the way to go.

Yeah, the cam is a Vindicator. I knew that it was a bit overkill for stock cubic inches, but I was ok with that. The car isn't a daily driver and the driveability manners aren't as bad as some poeple had commented on with other cams of similar size. Driveability is subjective, though, and I guess I'm tolerant of the cam shaking the car at a red light. :D

Perhaps with more cubic inches the cam can come along with me, or I can get another one spec'd out if/when the time comes. I was trying to think down the road a bit when I was buying up parts so I could grow into them without having to drop large sums of cash to replace something I already had. Maybe that was the wrong way to go about it, but it sure was fun getting to this point! :D

[LinearX]

BTW LinearX: This is NOT considered blasphemy on HardcoreLS1...:moon[1]:

What's not blasphemy? Posting the cam specs? I don't see why it would be anywhere since you can get the specs straight from any post the Ron has made about the cam.

I don't post much on tech, so I don't really have to worry about blaspheming over there! :biggrinbo

[Goatkart]

Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"


could someone explain the weird addition thing people always do with cam specs...

never did understand that...

whats 3730 or 3655

[Ed Curtis]

could someone explain the weird addition thing people always do with cam specs...

never did understand that...

whats 3730 or 3655

Those are the Comp Cams lobe numbers they are using for their "custom" camshafts.

Basically, anyone can go to the Comp website and mix and match the lobes to get the timing events they prefer. The issue is when these shops offer the same camshaft with multiple LSA options which in turn create many different timing events. Not the right way to do things.

Sure sounds like someone has their camshaft development going backwards. Well, since most of these shops just copy everyone else's stuff, there's more "Rip off and Duplicating" going on than "Research and Development"....

Ed

[Stang's Bane]

could someone explain the weird addition thing people always do with cam specs...

never did understand that...

whats 3730 or 3655

The numbers are from left to right:

Lobe number= duration at .006, duration at .050, duration at .200, lobe lift at the camshaft and gross valve lift.

I don't know what any of that **** means honestly except




bigger is better, right???:notooth[1:headshot[

[Goatkart]

The numbers are from left to right:

Lobe number= duration at .006, duration at .050, duration at .200, lobe lift at the camshaft and gross valve lift.

I don't know what any of that **** means honestly except




bigger is better, right???:notooth[1:headshot[


roflol..

it was the lobe number that i didnt understand... but thanks for playing anyhow :headshot[


i think Ed nailed the answer for me :D

[Stang's Bane]

Cool, glad you know.

[Stang's Bane]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9587084#post9587084

I can't beleive it. A trick flow/Veggiematic car didn't make 600++.

BLASPHEMY!!!

[SStrokerAce]

Kieth,

Big F'in cam to only make 10 more than you running on 7 holes with less cubes.... :nono:

"Trickflow 235 cc heads
Vengeance 251/254 113 lsa
Ported Fast 90/90

Final dyno number are in !!! I made 571 RWHP & 539 RWTQ last night. These number are corrected."

What are they CORRECTED too? STD or SAE?

[Stang's Bane]

Kinda what I thought. I feel these are probably more accurate than all of the 600 +++ ones that we have seen before.

Honestly I think we had more in mine like it was, even on 7 cylinders....

[Goatkart]

c'mon we all know what happened...

their dyno was down that day for "repairs"

so they had to use a neighbors dyno...


once they get a chance to put it on their dyno, it will show 600000 hp...

[viperbluelx]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9451753&postcount=15

He's just lucky he doesn't have to argue with me about camshafts I would hate to bitch slap him in front of all his minions.

Bret

I started that thread on the "tech" forum. I realize now that most of the people on there are idiots. What i'm curious about is why does everyone here seem to hate Ron at Vengeance? They seemed to do a nice job tuning my car although it made much lower cam-only numbers than most others running the same cam as me(although according to many reverse splits are garbage regardless).

Mark

[Ed Curtis]

I started that thread on the "tech" forum. I realize now that most of the people on there are idiots. What i'm curious about is why does everyone here seem to hate Ron at Vengeance? They seemed to do a nice job tuning my car although it made much lower cam-only numbers than most others running the same cam as me(although according to many reverse splits are garbage regardless).

Mark

Why? Because Ron Mowen is a pathological liar, period!

When the TFS heads came out he posted they were 40 HP better than any other aftermarket head out there. When I asked for proof, he went on his typical diatribe with anyone that dare to confront his opinion. His logic is, if he can't argue the facts, then just insult the opposition...

On the "protected" L$1Toke sponsor forums, moRon posted more lies about having nine of my LSX camshafts in his possession. He claimed he removed these nine camshafts and replaced them with their Vegen grinds and made more power. When I asked for proof by providing serial numbers, the normal sidestepping and insulting began.

First he said he wouldn't release the serial numbers in order to protect the customers. He later stated he only had six grinds. Next time he posted he said five. Sure sounds like a liar who just got caught. Even to today, that bold faced bullshitter still talks crap on L$1Toke but has yet to provide any proof. Easy to do over there where the credo is "post count creates credibility"...

Just a couple of weeks ago, I recommended one of my camshaft customers to a shop in Georgia for an install. Ron took it upon himself to Email me with more of his typical rhetoric, just because I recommended someone "other than" the moRon at Vegen. Things must be very slow at Vegen to spend the time just to Email me some of his typical bull dung complaining...

Why do the more experienced people consider moRon and Vegen a joke? Because each and every thread they're in, they continually provide proof they are idiots. There's a whole lot more that happens behind the consumer's eyes but I have some DART heads calling my name...

Ed

[viperbluelx]

Why? Because Ron Mowen is a pathological liar, period!

When the TFS heads came out he posted they were 40 HP better than any other aftermarket head out there. When I asked for proof, he went on his typical diatribe with anyone that dare to confront his opinion. His logic is, if he can't argue the facts, then just insult the opposition...

On the "protected" L$1Toke sponsor forums, moRon posted more lies about having nine of my LSX camshafts in his possession. He claimed he removed these nine camshafts and replaced them with their Vegen grinds and made more power. When I asked for proof by providing serial numbers, the normal sidestepping and insulting began.

First he said he wouldn't release the serial numbers in order to protect the customers. He later stated he only had six grinds. Next time he posted he said five. Sure sounds like a liar who just got caught. Even to today, that bold faced bullshitter still talks crap on L$1Toke but has yet to provide any proof. Easy to do over there where the credo is "post count creates credibility"...

Just a couple of weeks ago, I recommended one of my camshaft customers to a shop in Georgia for an install. Ron took it upon himself to Email me with more of his typical rhetoric, just because I recommended someone "other than" the moRon at Vegen. Things must be very slow at Vegen to spend the time just to Email me some of his typical bull dung complaining...

Why do the more experienced people consider moRon and Vegen a joke? Because each and every thread they're in, they continually provide proof they are idiots. There's a whole lot more that happens behind the consumer's eyes but I have some DART heads calling my name...

Ed

Thank you sir, that makes a lot of sense.

[SStrokerAce]

I knew you from someplace viperbluelx!

Honestly I wouldn't doubt Vengence played some dyno tricks with you to make your cam look worse than it is so they could sell you one of theirs.... I still think the X1 is junk but the Vengence stuff doesn't rank much higher on the list.

Bret

[Ed Curtis]

Bringing this back for a laugh or two... :icon_bigg

Looks like old moRon is telling the Kool-aid drinkers who overpay at L$1Toke, that I'm going out of business. Boy I could sure use the vacation time but it's just more pathological lying by our buddy moRon and his band of butt-buddies...

Well losers, you could only hope! :notooth[1

Sorry moRon, TSP Matt, way too Young, Damian the Spartan and the rest of the tools over there, but our business is growing, again! We've had another great fiscal year with another increase in sales volume and an ever-growing customer base. So sorry losers, but again all your lies and insinuations (that Toke obviously thrives on) are all wrong again.

What is truly amazing is how one small specialty shop can cause such a stir and scare the hell out of these people. If these L$1Toke sponsors are so busy and have thriving businesses, WTF do they care about what we're doing? Why should these people even worry about any impact we have on their business? Maybe it's because they are finally being outed about their BS hype and their lack of real experience? Or maybe it's just flat out jealousy? No one knows but themselves however, it's still intriguing how much band width these internet heroes waste on L$1Toke regarding the success of my business.

Oh and I'm still awaiting the answer to the question presented about the amount of home-based shops that L$1Toke extorts their money from, versus the brick and mortar shops. What percentage of the Kool-aid drinkers on there, are really "store fronts" and how many are nothing more than a glorified "Ebay shop". I can list a whole lot of sponsors, just on that one thread, that are using condos, houses or even other people's shops to front their wares on L$1Toke. Don't you find it funny how these same people attempt to discredit my little 900 square foot shop yet most only have a business card and a lap top.

Regardless, the ring leader and puppet master moRon, as well as quite a few sponsors on Toke, have again shown their true colors by attempting to spread lies with their their inflammatory posts. Guess things are VERY SLOW in Cumstain Georgia so he has to look for company.

* laughing at the insecurity of others *

[KMS]

I really want to think that some people over there can see through the smoke and mirrors. Like I said once over there.. as the cars get cheaper, and younger kids can afford them, and then afford to mod them on top of that, the BB will get more naive members, and the ones in a position of power (the sponsors) will take full advantage of it. The more they sell, the more greed sets in and they want to crush any competitor.

[viperbluelx]

link to thread?

[Cesar]

Gee ed tell us how you really feel :biggrinbo

[66duece]

Bringing this back for a laugh or two... :icon_bigg

Looks like old moRon is telling the Kool-aid drinkers who overpay at L$1Toke, that I'm going out of business. Boy I could sure use the vacation time but it's just more pathological lying by our buddy moRon and his band of butt-buddies...

Well losers, you could only hope! :notooth[1

Sorry moRon, TSP Matt, way too Young, Damian the Spartan and the rest of the tools over there, but our business is growing, again! We've had another great fiscal year with another increase in sales volume and an ever-growing customer base. So sorry losers, but again all your lies and insinuations (that Toke obviously thrives on) are all wrong again.

What is truly amazing is how one small specialty shop can cause such a stir and scare the hell out of these people. If these L$1Toke sponsors are so busy and have thriving businesses, WTF do they care about what we're doing? Why should these people even worry about any impact we have on their business? Maybe it's because they are finally being outed about their BS hype and their lack of real experience? Or maybe it's just flat out jealousy? No one knows but themselves however, it's still intriguing how much band width these internet heroes waste on L$1Toke regarding the success of my business.

Oh and I'm still awaiting the answer to the question presented about the amount of home-based shops that L$1Toke extorts their money from, versus the brick and mortar shops. What percentage of the Kool-aid drinkers on there, are really "store fronts" and how many are nothing more than a glorified "Ebay shop". I can list a whole lot of sponsors, just on that one thread, that are using condos, houses or even other people's shops to front their wares on L$1Toke. Don't you find it funny how these same people attempt to discredit my little 900 square foot shop yet most only have a business card and a lap top.

Regardless, the ring leader and puppet master moRon, as well as quite a few sponsors on Toke, have again shown their true colors by attempting to spread lies with their their inflammatory posts. Guess things are VERY SLOW in Cumstain Georgia so he has to look for company.

* laughing at the insecurity of others *i've learned over the years it's the people that make a business,not how big of a shop you own/work at..
i know of a guy who works(or use to,it's been yrs) out of his barn,restoring vintage cars,(old model Ts and the like)..this guy has forgot more than most people will ever know about those old relics..he restored a 1920 model T pickup for one of my old customers,he inherited it from his grandfather..i saw the truck before,and after restoration..awesome work..on one visit,we went to this guy's shop/barn..let me look around,gave me a ride in a old model T he slapped together to give his grandkids rides in,told me stories about some of the people that he restored cars for..i could listen to this guy for hours,it was truly a treat to see his shop..
he had customers from across the country,and if i remember right,a couple from oversees..one old truck he was restoring,only 5 or so were known to exist at the time,and to his knowledge,that one was going to be the only running example when he finished..
but hell,he just worked out of his barn..couldn't possibly know what the hell he was doing:icon_roll

[Ed Curtis]

Can't link you Mark because it's in their "protected" sponsor forum. The same forum that started a rumor that ET Performance was going out of business. More untruths and misinformation being spread by jealous competition.

I guess I'll just have to put a hold on the 28 x 80 foot warehouse and workshop we just finished clearing land for, because we're going out of business.

Over the past 15 years, what I have been constantly told by many veterans in this business is, they *wish* they could have their shops in the back of their property. It would save on down time and traveling since they would just walk to work. There's also the much lower cost of overhead by doing this. I listened and learned from them, especially after selling my retail speed shop in the mid nineties and getting the business back to basics. Overspending, over-advertising and overhead kills you.

Many of the top NHRA engine guys we worked with had small, two or three bay garages in the back of their houses, and a few of them were top ten NHRA Pro Stock engine builders. Iaconio, Ingles and a few more for example. None of whom even have a dollar invested on any web site advertising either. I guess they'd all be considered NFG over at L$1Toke just because they didn't have the correct square footage or advertise with a massive post count...

That place just never ceases to amaze me how much they'll waste time dwelling on my efforts....

Oh and Patrick... you may have just crossed a line by defending me. in that one thread.... Thanks but beware of the wraith of the over-moderated forum!

Ed

[Cesar]

I had a friend that worked for Iaconio..somewhat small shop next to his house...

I remember Jim tellin me a story from back in his stocker days working out of his garage...customer brought his cleveland in and turned around once he saw the shop he was working out of lol

[Ed Curtis]

I had a friend that worked for Iaconio..somewhat small shop next to his house...

I remember Jim tellin me a story from back in his stocker days working out of his garage...customer brought his cleveland in and turned around once he saw the shop he was working out of lol

Cesar,

We built this record holding, multi-time event winner and NMRA Pure Street Championship car in my buddy Chris' basement garage, which is "under" his house.

What has moRon done?

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/EDC-FTI/RS-HSpic-1.jpg

[Cesar]

whos ron? :D

lol there was only 3 cars in atco for the pure street class..seems its dying out...I hear theres a rumor that mean street will be no more after this year supposedly..so much for allowing the ls1 this year.

[SStrokerAce]

i've learned over the years it's the people that make a business,not how big of a shop you own/work at..
i know of a guy who works(or use to,it's been yrs) out of his barn,restoring vintage cars,(old model Ts and the like)..this guy has forgot more than most people will ever know about those old relics..he restored a 1920 model T pickup for one of my old customers,he inherited it from his grandfather..i saw the truck before,and after restoration..awesome work..on one visit,we went to this guy's shop/barn..let me look around,gave me a ride in a old model T he slapped together to give his grandkids rides in,told me stories about some of the people that he restored cars for..i could listen to this guy for hours,it was truly a treat to see his shop..
he had customers from across the country,and if i remember right,a couple from oversees..one old truck he was restoring,only 5 or so were known to exist at the time,and to his knowledge,that one was going to be the only running example when he finished..
but hell,he just worked out of his barn..couldn't possibly know what the hell he was doing:icon_roll

Sounds like my fathers best friend since forever. Always has a pre-1920 car in the garage he is restoring for someone that is one of nothing and it takes years to do and ends up winning all the awards before the guy is allowed to drive it! Seriously neat stuff, and it's all done out of the garage attached to his house!

Small shops almost always do the best work, because the guy inside cares and is doing most of the work. I have to say any of the guys I know I would let touch my stuff are these exact guys. Usually they aren't in tons of debt either and don't need to advertise because they are busier than they can handle.

Anyways to add to the thread.... I've actually made it into the lies of Vengance now saying they pulled at LOT of my cams out. Funny I don't remember selling any LS1 cams to guys in Georgia or where ever they are? Same deal as Ed I guess, I'd like to see the proof! It's usually pretty easy, the back of the cam tells if it came from me!

Bret

[SStrokerAce]

I found this and thought it was a funny comment about moRon,

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9907234&postcount=90

;-)

[rushhour]

I found this and thought it was a funny comment about moRon,

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9907234&postcount=90

;-)

Ha - that is one funny ass comment. I guess his posting rate will remain where it is - since he was probably banned 10 seconds after it was posted.

Steve

[SStrokerAce]

Hey how about some spy work on are old boy Ron... and I'm the one that everyone THINKS is a *******, guess we know the real truth here. Saying all of this like he wants it posted up for everyone else to see.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/sstrokerace/Ron.jpg

I really wonder if WHY he thinks I'm jealous of him bolting on TFS heads out of the box with a big cam and then making big claims? He's not doing any miracles? Why do his cars that come off of his dyno not make the same power someplace else? Why do the Cartek cars that make less power run faster? Hell that's a insult to Cartek to even put those two in the same sentence..... (see there is proof I don't hate everyone)

Bret

[Stang's Bane]

Where did you get that from?? I can't find it...

[Ed Curtis]

I already saw that Bret.. It's from their "private sponsor" section...

There's a lot more... Whatley and Ryan are even more funny... :D

I'm also a little confused on BigBronco... Never even spoke to the guy....

Ed

[Gh0st]

Damn, you guys have some issues and need to hug or something and get over it.

[rushhour]

I already saw that Bret.. It's from their "private sponsor" section...

There's a lot more... Whatley and Ryan are even more funny... :D

I'm also a little confused on BigBronco... Never even spoke to the guy....

Ed

Not fair - you guys have access to a private forum. Please enlighten us with what is says - it is wednesday and I am in need of comic relief.:biggrinbo

Steve

[Gh0st]

And Ron is right about the dyno thing...at least in my case. I put my car on a dyno in Memphis and it read the same as their dyno. I can't comment on how some of their cars get such amazing numbers, but I really don't care.

This is a business, Vengeance is clearly doing a good job. I don't always agree with Ron but like I've said, we've made our peace and are on good terms now(I think!).

I don't know the whole story, I just dont get why people argue about stuff like who is better. If it's that big of a deal just prove it and slap your penises together and get over it.

[SStrokerAce]

Ed, doesn't seem to matter to most of these guys if they have talked with you met you or run your product, they are going to talk smack for no reason (that applies to both other shops or customers!)

Bret

[Ed Curtis]

Damn... how do you guys find time for this drama? :confused:

Phil... the real truth is out there... Some people are nothing more than a mouth piece or better yet, hatchet man for their buddy's shop. Their sole purpose in life is the hype up their boss's business all while slamming the competition on a biased forum. It's just the nature of things on the 'net...

Whatever... :strokin:

So if these shops are so hard up for busy work that their sales clerks must talk crap about a competing business in a special "secret squirrel" site, that's just their own insecurity issues coming out and there's nothing anyone can do to help them, other than possibly seeing a shrink. Besides, it's free ink and if potential customers do some real research, they can easily make up their minds who is full of crap and who is providing tangible results.

This thread has run it's course so by Friday, it'll be locked....

Back to work, finishing up the chambers on Aaron's fking DARTs...

Ed

[edcmat-l1]

[COLOR=Navy]

Their sole purpose in life is the hype up their boss's business all while slamming the competition on a biased forum. It's just the nature of things on the 'net...

Whatever... :strokin:



Now, the last thing I wanna do is start a pissing match, defending other shops that I have NO interest in, but can you see how this comment is very much the pot calling the kettle black? I mean, come on Ed, this site is built on bashing LS1-whatever and a certain few shops on there.
Its like the 2 of you are some rebel without a cause overaged youngsters that dont want to play by society's rules. Not that its society, thats a metaphor.
Both of you are very bright, no one is arguing that. But the 2 of you, esp Bret, have a tendency to let your attitudes get in your way. And they do just that; GET IN THE WAY.
You get no where fast telling everyone they're stupid. Or not as smart as you. Whether its other shops, other techs, Cam gurus, self appointed or not. IT guys, whatever.

[Ed Curtis]

Have you had your head in the sand or has the Kool-aid society brainwashed you?

In which thread did I call anyone "stupid"? I really would like to read that.

As for attitude, do you read what garbage and lies about the competition thugs like Mowen spew? Talks crap to Cary from ETP. Talks crap about TSP. Basically talks crap about anyone he wants, with no regard for the truth all with the blessing of the bobsy twins.

You have NEVER worked with me, nor have we had any business together, yet you call me an "asshat"? Did you really think no one would send me your comments? Get a clue.

How about the comments "you" have made about another competitor? I can provide a few of your quotes if you want me to remind you.

Get real... I never started this bickering but I sure as s#it will not sit quietly while an insecure and glorified sales clerk hides behind the skirt of a sponsor forum and tries to degrade what I have accomplished.

You still think it's only Bret or me or anyone but the Kool-aid drinkers that are the issue? Look at what happened to Patrick now that he's posting over here. Pretty sure the same will happen to Jason from TSP for stopping by and posting. I'm too set in my ways to give a flying fk about what pee-brains and punks on L$1Toke, or even over here, may say about me, but I do RESPECT these guys for stepping up, speaking their peace, clearing the air and even putting up with the joking.

Time to take the blinders off, do some checking around on the over-pay site and see who the real dikheads are before you drown in the cherry Kool-aid.

Friday people... Friday...

[Gh0st]

According to my calendar today is Friday

[edcmat-l1]

I by no means am a kool aid drinker. Yep, I've had words with/about other shops. Nope, we havent done business.
As for what I said, I knew ahead of time you guys were reading that thread, you've said so over here, and I could care less.
It just gets to be kinda nauseating, all the s**t. All the be all, end all attitudes. I know you're set in your ways. Thats too bad.

[SStrokerAce]

Ed H.... I think you are just back pedaling because you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Honestly you have always come off badly to me, kinda like how I do to you... I just didn't stir the pot with you because I didn't actually know you. I think I have seen enough of who you really are at this point, disappointing really.

In the end you just don't get it... you don't realize the how and why I am how I am on here or the internet, I don't think you will either. I'm not Patrick, I'm not going to be everyone's buddy and pat them on the ass for sub par results, or keep my mouth shut when I see people churning out junk parts. Knowledge in this industry should be used to protect the guys who don't know better before they waste their money.

This puts a target on my back... good deal IMHO, it just makes me take extra care of what I do to make sure it is the ****. I guess the evidence comes from digging up things from 6 years ago on me to actually find problems... that oil pump deal has followed me around everyplace but I haven't seen anyone who could beat that motor ever say anything?

Bret

[viperbluelx]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2117430

[Gh0st]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2117430

Oops!!!!!!!!

Edit: my signature goes in hand in hand with those findings.

[SStrokerAce]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2117430

Who ports a FAST manifold without having the heads on hand to match it too?

I realize that these are Vette guys in that thread, but is the perception of porting a FAST mean that the whole manifold has to look like it was touched? The surface finish of a manifold with a 60 grit cartigride roll looks and feels rough but it doesn't hurt anything... even so a quick once over with something finer will fix that.

I'm also wondering if in this pic the guy is worried about the sharp edge?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/aprea1/IMG_1726.jpg

Not to stick up for them but a rounded edge is not a better idea here.

Either way without the heads or pictures that are in focus it's hard to see the faults here.... there aren't very straight walls here and some other things but who knows until you see the thing in your hands with the parts it goes with....

Bret